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MYKOLA BILOKONSKY
What's the point, really?
Articles Posted: 292; Links Seeded: 261
Member Since: 11/2005
Member Since: 11/2005
60 Comments
PrintNewsvine Hits the Bigtime - Where does that leave You and Me?
News Type: Event — Sun Oct 7, 2007 7:27 PM EDT
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Unlike some folks, I'm actually pretty excited about the recent news that Newsvine got bought by MSNBC. Yes, they're the big bad mainstream media. If Mike and the gang had to give up creative control over newsvine as a part of the deal I'd be packing my things and heading out - I hear reddit is lovely this time of year.
But the idea seems to be that newsvine remains quasi-independent. There are a few things that could change, but The Big Fear as far as media goes has always been censorship and having read what's been written about this I am not afraid that this will somehow lead to Rupert Murdoch personally screening my articles before they go live.
Looking at this for a moment, here's what newsvine gains:
- Stable servers with a huge corporation making sure that things are up and running and (hopefully) faster than they've been.
- Exposure exposure exposure. This deal made the AP wire, is making the rounds on all the main blogs, etc etc etc. We are going to have lots of new readers tearing down our doors, so now would be a good time to dust off that old article idea you had but were too lazy to write and to start getting interviews.
- A larger community (ok, we're not sure how positive this is going to be. The newsvine community does not have a long history of "plays well with large new blocks of users." If we're honest with ourselves we'll admit that we may have a rocky transition ahead - so I'd like to urge everyone to be open-minded and welcoming. We've got the best user community on the internet, for my money - and I firmly believe that if we stick to our guns and do what we do best (that is, interact with respect and civility and genuine insight) then those values will prevail. What we don't need is anyone swaggering over and saying "Alright, noobs, listen up. Here's how we do things around here, and you'll do it or get out..." cuz that trick never works. Ok?
- Hopefully more resources in general. I'd love to be able to upload video and audio streams, to phone in breaking news stories, etc. I'm actually told there's a whole whiteboard with some crazy ideas on it - Calvin, we get to see those implemented now, right?
Ok, so that's out of the way. Now let's get to the meat of the matter, because I get the sense that this is going to be a big @!$%#storm until things settle down. We've seen what we gain - what are we going to lose?
So far, nothing has been said. We know Mike will remain CEO, but he now reports to MSNBC. What does that mean, exactly?
Here are my concerns, which may or may not be born out. I'd like to see them addressed and discussed, and if you think of something that I haven't please leave a comment.
- Censorship. The idea of "quality content" has been flung around like so much monkey crap lately. I've been a big flinger - I want to see us rid of divisive, idiotic, false and inflammatory articles and seeds. Some people have accused me of favoring censorship, but there's a difference. I'm opposed to such things regardless of content.
What I'd like to have some assurance of is that as we go further into this buyout, the content of a seed or article won't become a factor if we are evaluating its quality. I'd like some assurance that there isn't some boardroom exec, accountable to corporate stockholders, who has a big red button to delete any content that said stockholders don't like. What we all love about newsvine is that we get stories here that don't make it to cnn.com or fox.com or msnbc.com - we get quirky analyses and crazy conspiracy theories and we discuss them. I'd like to know that that won't change.
- Money. Calvin, in one of a flurry of comments today, has said that the ad rev scheme won't change for now - but that some changes may be coming in the future. I'd like to know what those changes will be and to what degree they are a reflection of this new deal. Earnings have tripled in the past few months and I for the first time feel like with a few solid articles I could pay my credit card bills with newsvine. I don't want that to change, and I'd like some assurance that any changes to the ad rev scheme don't have a detrimental effect on my earnings.
- New Users. I addressed this above a bit, but anyone who was around when the NYT crew joined newsvine remembers that drama. More users are great - but I'd like to see the much-discussed modifications to the code of honor and I'd like to know how the team expects to integrate a deluge of new users without falling victim to mob commenting mentality. We don't need a new crowd (from left or right) making idiotic comments on political articles, and if buyout is as successful as it sounds then that may become a concern.
I'd like to wrap this up with one more comment - things look like they're about to change. Newsvine got bought, and as much as people tell us that it'll be just like old times (which is what the staff is supposed to say in such a situation, it's in the "so your social news site got bought out, eh?" handbook) you and I both know that it won't. We're in for some turbulence, and that means we have a choice:
We can embrace it, roll with it and adapt to it, or we can dig our heels in and resist it. Well, from where I'm sitting it looks to me like resistance isn't going to change much. So my advice to anyone who has concerns is simply this: look on the bright side and figure out how this is going to work for you. If you have a negative attitude you'll have a negative experience and will in turn do your part to ruin it for everyone else. If you have a positive attitude, you'll have a positive experience and do your part to save it for everyone else.
I'm not saying we should put on rose-colored glasses and greet our new overlords with open and unquestioning arms, but there's no reason to shoot first and there's no reason not to give them the benefit of the doubt. The newsvine staff has made a lot of complex and difficult decisions since this site started and I have to give them credit - they're usually pretty damn good decisions.
(except for chat, that blew.)
Anyway, the choice is ours, so let's make the best of it - cool?
55 Votes- Enjoy this article? Help vote it up the 'Vine.
Published to:
- Mykola Bilokonsky's Column, All of Newsvine
- Groups: MetaVine, Newsvine Community, Open Mic, The Bilokonsky Dynasty
- Regions: none
 | How Can We, As Newsviners, Help With This Transition And Related Questions | Scott (Scoop) Butki | Mon Oct 8 | 16 |
| The Future of Newsvine and What it Means to You | Calvin Tang | Sun Oct 7 | 324 |
| Welcome New Users (No really!) | spiffie | Mon Oct 8 | 55 |
- Public Discussion (60)
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6.0
{"commentId":1080445,"authorDomain":"darkside"}
So, these are just some initial thoughts. I'll have more to say as the details of this deal emerge with time - but what do you think?
{"commentId":1080445,"threadId":"159062","contentId":"1009069","authorDomain":"darkside"}
- 9 votes
#1 - Sun Oct 7, 2007 7:30 PM EDT{"commentId":1080550,"authorDomain":"pobox522rlyeh"}
I agree with you that potential additional exposure is a good thing.
Whenever a big change comes, there are usually a lot of people running around panicking and talking about the particular way in which the sky will fall. It is possible that the sky might fall, but talking about it in advance isn't really helpful, unless someone has a potential solution to the sky falling. (A helmet or something?)
I'm hoping things don't change all that much as far as fundamental rules go. I don't think they will really. If they thought that everything about the setup here was wrong, they wouldn't have bought the place.
{"commentId":1080550,"threadId":"159062","contentId":"1009069","authorDomain":"pobox522rlyeh"}
- 12 votes
{"commentId":1080852,"authorDomain":"sbutki"}
Excellent. You articulated most of my concerns and thoughts.
It would be great if the COH changes could occur before we get an influx of new members but I predict we'll get some because of the news coverage of this announcement.
I think we will need a way to distinguish how Newsvine is now versus how it will be after this announcement.
I propose we call it Pre-Microsoft and After Microsoft.
That can be abbreviated to PM and AM.
Oh, wait,that's an abbreviation already used, right? Well, I'm sure Bill Gates can use some of his billions to buy out those currently using that system.
{"commentId":1080852,"threadId":"159062","contentId":"1009069","authorDomain":"sbutki"}
- 12 votes
{"commentId":1082023,"authorDomain":"newsguru"}
I think we've all seen how these things turn out, good and bad.
The truth is these guys are entrepreneurs like many here and many else where and that's capitalism at it's finest.
Who amongst us wouldn't like to create a startup, help grow it successfully, and sell it for a wad and still get to participate and help manage.
I can't wait for the day that dealing with user comments regarding a multi-million dollar buyout of my startup is the biggest problem of my day.
Good job Newsvine owners. I like the rest hope all changes are for the positive, especially the cash. But if it's not, it's capitalism and the free market, if the changes don't work for we'll simply "leave". I promise I won't hang around to long enough to complain.
{"commentId":1082023,"threadId":"159062","contentId":"1009069","authorDomain":"newsguru"}
- 5 votes
{"commentId":1080477,"authorDomain":"spiffie"}
Newsvine got bought, and as much as people tell us that it'll be just like old times (which is what the staff is supposed to say in such a situation, it's in the "so your social news site got bought out, eh?" handbook) you and I both know that it won't.
My attitude is that change was going to happen sooner or later anyway. Things wouldn't be the same a year from now regardless of whether MSNBC bought Newsvine or not. The nature of Newsvine has always been incorporating new features, new users, new ideas, and a new mix of new stories. Newsvine isn't just about the news, it's about "the new," too.
Admittedly, this is a lot of "the new" to digest all at once. But if we just commit to seeding and generating the best content we can, we'll do fine, even if things seem a bit rocky for a few months.
{"commentId":1080477,"threadId":"159062","contentId":"1009069","authorDomain":"spiffie"}
- 10 votes
#2 - Sun Oct 7, 2007 7:41 PM EDT{"commentId":1083354,"authorDomain":"dcuben"}
Thanks, Spiffie... this is one of the things I love about Newsvine - links to things I'd never have the time to find for myself!
{"commentId":1083354,"threadId":"159062","contentId":"1009069","authorDomain":"dcuben"}
- 5 votes
{"commentId":1080583,"authorDomain":"jasonford"}
I think a lot of people saw this coming. Congratulations to Calvin and the rest of the crew.
Personally, I like Newsvine the way it is and I am not big on change when I like something. I hope any changes are positive and I will try and keep an open mind.
{"commentId":1080583,"threadId":"159062","contentId":"1009069","authorDomain":"jasonford"}
- 10 votes
#3 - Sun Oct 7, 2007 8:22 PM EDT{"commentId":1080587,"authorDomain":"YuriyBilokonsky"}
Wait... so I get to be a real pundit now?
I don't honestly see a down side.Think I should delete my more virulent anti-establishment articles, just in case Rupert gets bored and decides to have a chat on his private line with the Illuminati?
{"commentId":1080587,"threadId":"159062","contentId":"1009069","authorDomain":"YuriyBilokonsky"}
- 4 votes
#4 - Sun Oct 7, 2007 8:22 PM EDT{"commentId":1080610,"authorDomain":"spiffie"}
Think I should delete my more virulent anti-establishment articles
I think you need to step it up a notch.
{"commentId":1080610,"threadId":"159062","contentId":"1009069","authorDomain":"spiffie"}
- 6 votes
{"commentId":1080623,"authorDomain":"YuriyBilokonsky"}
You mean I should up it to a point that I don't believe a single word I say either,
Or increase output? Both? Is insanity marketable? I mean O'reailly does alright.
{"commentId":1080623,"threadId":"159062","contentId":"1009069","authorDomain":"YuriyBilokonsky"}
- 7 votes
{"commentId":1080639,"authorDomain":"spiffie"}
Both or neither. You could believe everything you wrote, too, just don't lose your zeal.
{"commentId":1080639,"threadId":"159062","contentId":"1009069","authorDomain":"spiffie"}
- 5 votes
{"commentId":1080672,"authorDomain":"YuriyBilokonsky"}
Thanks. The zeal is the most important tool of the pundit, isn't it?
Yes, with the greater audience and possibility of higher adshares I could just stand to gain from this considerably.
Maybe I should just follow the Tao and keep going as I have, mindless of this change. My last few have not been my best.
Well, now I know what I'm gonna be. I'm gonna be a pundit.
{"commentId":1080672,"threadId":"159062","contentId":"1009069","authorDomain":"YuriyBilokonsky"}
- 5 votes
{"commentId":1095610,"authorDomain":"thedagda"}
Pundit-zeal! Getcher pundit-zeal righ' chere! Fresh hot pundit-zeal! Pundit-zeal!
OK pal, are youse gonna buy th' pundit-zeal or are youse gonna jus' drool all over it?!
{"commentId":1095610,"threadId":"159062","contentId":"1009069","authorDomain":"thedagda"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":1100387,"authorDomain":"YuriyBilokonsky"}
I prefer to grow my own. You never know what they add to the store-bought stuff. Most of it doesn't even have to be on the label.
{"commentId":1100387,"threadId":"159062","contentId":"1009069","authorDomain":"YuriyBilokonsky"}
{"commentId":1080590,"authorDomain":"farmer"}
Mykola, I share your concerns and your wishes for the future. I have a gut feeling this big influx will, of itself, help control things on Newsvine. First of all, some of the processes new members confront will become jammed with newbies. The Greenhouse will expand to bursting. If Calvin will let old Algo Rhythm dance to a slower waltz, the new people will make adjustments before they get too involved in trolling and spatting. Talking about Chat, maybe a more sophisticated version could become available but doesn't seem that necessary as the community is pretty good at chatting through comments.
This change of ownership or corporate structure has made some recent articles kind of moot. Some have been yours. Cutty made a grand entrance but I wonder now how effective his plea will be. This does change all of our concerns about such things as quality of content, the raising of article to prominence and the CoH and disciplinary functions of the site. I am not saying they are out the door, only that this will change everything we have discussed (the entire community) up to this point.
More tomorrow. If you happen to see Corey, I visited his Grandpa again. Still have never seen hide nor hair of Corey.
{"commentId":1080590,"threadId":"159062","contentId":"1009069","authorDomain":"farmer"}
- 6 votes
#5 - Sun Oct 7, 2007 8:22 PM EDT{"commentId":1080604,"authorDomain":"spiffie"}
Money.
On money, one thing that the NY Times article Marilyn seed triggered for me is that this is probably a great deal on the money side. I think the phrase was "access to the NBC sales force;" I read that to mean more consistent ad sales, and more likelihood of near total ad sales (vs. the situation now where clearly not all the ad space is selling out on a regular basis). That means you're more likely to make money when someone visits your seeds or articles. It also may be the case that Newsvine is able to bring in more for ad sales, since they're now associated with a much larger site.
Where this might change the existing payout scheme, as I see it: Currently Newsvine covers all their own ad sales, but if ad space on our pages is now being included in organization-wide ad-buys (ads that are contracted to appear on all of the NBC and/or MS family of sites), then the 90% number may not be what we see anymore. That's not necessarily a bad thing, though, since between the increased ad rates and increased placement rates revenue for individual users still might go up.
What I'd like to see, I think, is ad space on the site which is reserved for "Newsvine ads" under the current system and ad space that's reserved for "organization ads." I'd like to see a user able to specify "Sign me up for any ads available!" and "Please sign me up for 90% ads only" (i.e. ads sold under the current system). That may or may not be feasible from an accounting or technical viewpoint.
{"commentId":1080604,"threadId":"159062","contentId":"1009069","authorDomain":"spiffie"}
- 6 votes
#6 - Sun Oct 7, 2007 8:27 PM EDT{"commentId":1080620,"authorDomain":"paperdragon"}
The end of an era.
Still, I'll hope for the best.
{"commentId":1080620,"threadId":"159062","contentId":"1009069","authorDomain":"paperdragon"}
- 10 votes
#7 - Sun Oct 7, 2007 8:32 PM EDT{"commentId":1080817,"authorDomain":"chill888"}
Dennis Exactly
I think the "old gang" can't help but be proud and happy for the founders.
But yikes .... let's hope it goes OK
{"commentId":1080817,"threadId":"159062","contentId":"1009069","authorDomain":"chill888"}
- 10 votes
{"commentId":1080834,"authorDomain":"spiffie"}
The only constant in change, grasshopper.
{"commentId":1080834,"threadId":"159062","contentId":"1009069","authorDomain":"spiffie"}
- 6 votes
{"commentId":1080835,"authorDomain":"eric-albert"}
Smile:
Your comment hit me too, Dennis: I will wait to see what happens. It is the ned of an era.
{"commentId":1080835,"threadId":"159062","contentId":"1009069","authorDomain":"eric-albert"}
- 5 votes
{"commentId":1081496,"authorDomain":"PamelaDrew"}
If it all blows up Dennis, we'll pack our bags for Ankara, hang with the harem, drink great coffee and podcast.
{"commentId":1081496,"threadId":"159062","contentId":"1009069","authorDomain":"PamelaDrew"}
- 6 votes
{"commentId":1081501,"authorDomain":"paperdragon"}
Hell, you can do that either way.
{"commentId":1081501,"threadId":"159062","contentId":"1009069","authorDomain":"paperdragon"}
- 8 votes
{"commentId":1082179,"authorDomain":"scientificblog"}
Or you can build your own site. I just checked and 'NewsGulch.com', for example, is available. The last thing MSNBC wants is a mass exodus so they will add bandwidth, IT people and ad sales. Those should all be positive things.
{"commentId":1082179,"threadId":"159062","contentId":"1009069","authorDomain":"scientificblog"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":1083435,"authorDomain":"celestina"}
It is the end of an era, in a sense, but it also has been coming for a long time. Ever since we started to get lots and lots of users, things have been changing. Fortunately for us, this is not like Civ III, where you only get one Golden Age.
I think it's important to bear in mind that MSNBC had to examine what makes this site work when they considered buying it. What makes it stand out is that is is a mostly user-controlled environment. What makes it special are the many brilliant minds who choose to write and discuss here. If they take away too much control from the users, if they make changes which scare off the best writers, they effectively lose their investment. It won't be the promising site it currently is. I imagine they will step a little carefully.
{"commentId":1083435,"threadId":"159062","contentId":"1009069","authorDomain":"celestina"}
- 7 votes
{"commentId":1083494,"authorDomain":"PamelaDrew"}
Oh Celestina, it makes me almost misty eyed nostalgic and kinda lucky to have glimpsed the Golden Age, but I'm trying hard to look at this like a parent whose child has grown ready to leave the nest. Though dramatically different, another chapter with opportunities of its own awaits.
Celestina... I think it's important to bear in mind that MSNBC had to examine what makes this site work when they considered buying it. What makes it stand out is that is is a mostly user-controlled environment. What makes it special are the many brilliant minds who choose to write and discuss here.
You're absolutely right Celestina, but part of sweet fennel vineness is drawn from the level of intimacy we have. An influx hitting like a wave could be a wipe out. The bigger question to me is, what model would control the influx to simulate an organic growth rate and not make the event chatastrophic.
If how and what we share as a community, a virtually collective unit, makes us the rare alchemy that is Newsvine, where is there a point of diminishing return where not enough of the former relationships can be sustained or flourish in a culture that is far more diluted?
Then of course, the devil's advocate in me wants to look for whatever threat we might pose and the cheap fix of resolving it by buying and imploding the problem. Hey, nothing is out of bounds in strategy of crisis management and it's still not clear in my mind what the big guys get from this.
What the founders and staff get and have the opportunity to do at the moment totally makes sense and has clear upside but too many years dwelling in the belly of the beast and thinking like a shark will keep questions about what they buying us for that may not be part of the Press Release stated objectives? Time will tell...
{"commentId":1083494,"threadId":"159062","contentId":"1009069","authorDomain":"PamelaDrew"}
- 5 votes
{"commentId":1083536,"authorDomain":"celestina"}
too many years dwelling in the belly of the beast and thinking like a shark will keep questions about what they buying us for that may not be part of the Press Release stated objectives?
Yeah, I hear you. I am really, really working on maintaining optimism here, because I figure you may as well. I do think your concerns about a large influx of new users are merited, and the only thing I know to do for it is to try to push concepts which sort of divvy up the 'vine into smaller units, each with a certain amount of self-governing. Myk, Oldfogey, myself, and lots of other people have proposed various ways of doing this. I sort of view it like how any nation, once it gets too large, has to start setting up subunits in order to keep running. Beyond that, I guess we keep our eyes open and prepare to be creative.
{"commentId":1083536,"threadId":"159062","contentId":"1009069","authorDomain":"celestina"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":1083542,"authorDomain":"YuriyBilokonsky"}
Who wants to be a subject of the benevolent Bilokonsky Dynasty?
{"commentId":1083542,"threadId":"159062","contentId":"1009069","authorDomain":"YuriyBilokonsky"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":1083675,"authorDomain":"DiffTech"}
The people here seem to think that there are going to be a rush traffic of new users but I don't think to happen for the time being. I dont think this is goint to happen at all, because I see a periodical growth more possible than a rush of new users. Every community grows over time and that's what we gonna see here but little faster, we have been subject of news around the blogosphere for the last two days and have we seen a rush of new users? I haven't.
Maybe the number of new visitors is going to reflect on the traffic report but I don't really think that if we haven't gotten a rush of new members by now(not visitors) we are not going to get it. Maybe over the course of time the community will grow according to the exposure that they give us on their page and the promotion they run for the site.
{"commentId":1083675,"threadId":"159062","contentId":"1009069","authorDomain":"DiffTech"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":1083757,"authorDomain":"jasonford"}
Who wants to be a subject of the benevolent Bilokonsky Dynasty?
Just steer clear of the Ford clan's boundaries.
{"commentId":1083757,"threadId":"159062","contentId":"1009069","authorDomain":"jasonford"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":1083814,"authorDomain":"celestina"}
Oh, hell...can we get y'all in on a tag-team AoD match? Please?
We can dedicate the whole event to our new corporate over...um, sponsors. It'l be a proper welcoming party. They'll love it.
{"commentId":1083814,"threadId":"159062","contentId":"1009069","authorDomain":"celestina"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":1083881,"authorDomain":"darkside"}
{"commentId":1083898,"authorDomain":"jasonford"}
can we get y'all in on a tag-team AoD match?
Just remember that Brian get along best in rare, short visits. Too much togetherness could turn ugly. :-)
{"commentId":1083898,"threadId":"159062","contentId":"1009069","authorDomain":"jasonford"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":1083900,"authorDomain":"jasonford"}
s/b Brian and I get along best. Maybe MSNBC will give us an edit button.
{"commentId":1083900,"threadId":"159062","contentId":"1009069","authorDomain":"jasonford"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":1083902,"authorDomain":"yasmin"}
I've been trying, but my brothers are too busy having lives or something. I think they'd have a blast here. ;-)
{"commentId":1083902,"threadId":"159062","contentId":"1009069","authorDomain":"yasmin"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":1084525,"authorDomain":"YuriyBilokonsky"}
Yes. We will destroy the Ford Clan and become the new masters of automotivation!
{"commentId":1084525,"threadId":"159062","contentId":"1009069","authorDomain":"YuriyBilokonsky"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":1080754,"authorDomain":"jasonford"}
Help! It's too late. I went to check some of my comments from previous months and they're gone. Eric Albert has been right all along. The corporate fascist media has bought Newsvine and they are deleting our comments, starting with mine. Calvin, Mike, are you there or have you left town already?
Or, it could just be a technical glitch. I'm not sure which.
{"commentId":1080754,"threadId":"159062","contentId":"1009069","authorDomain":"jasonford"}
- 4 votes
#8 - Sun Oct 7, 2007 9:28 PM EDT{"commentId":1080774,"authorDomain":"YuriyBilokonsky"}
Eric Albert knows his @!$%#, best to act on that until further evidence comes up.
{"commentId":1080774,"threadId":"159062","contentId":"1009069","authorDomain":"YuriyBilokonsky"}
- 5 votes
{"commentId":1080787,"authorDomain":"pobox522rlyeh"}
Help! It's too late. I went to check some of my comments from previous months and they're gone. Eric Albert has been right all along. The corporate fascist media has bought Newsvine and they are deleting our comments, starting with mine. Calvin, Mike, are you there or have you left town already?
Or, it could just be a technical glitch. I'm not sure which.
If you assume that it was the corporate fascist media then you will many more votes.
So obviously it was the corporate fascist media.
{"commentId":1080787,"threadId":"159062","contentId":"1009069","authorDomain":"pobox522rlyeh"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":1080845,"authorDomain":"eric-albert"}
Smile.
{"commentId":1080845,"threadId":"159062","contentId":"1009069","authorDomain":"eric-albert"}
- 6 votes
{"commentId":1084332,"authorDomain":"chill888"}
Fortunately for us, this is not like Civ III, where you only get one Golden Age.
Ah but Celestina, in Civ 4 you can have multiple Golden Ages .... progress
{"commentId":1084332,"threadId":"159062","contentId":"1009069","authorDomain":"chill888"}
- 6 votes
{"commentId":1084529,"authorDomain":"YuriyBilokonsky"}
But it costs you the lives of more great people.
{"commentId":1084529,"threadId":"159062","contentId":"1009069","authorDomain":"YuriyBilokonsky"}
{"commentId":1084806,"authorDomain":"spiffie"}
But it costs you the lives of more great people.
Was that the true goal of Newsvine Survivor? Identifying the sacrificial lambs?
{"commentId":1084806,"threadId":"159062","contentId":"1009069","authorDomain":"spiffie"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":1080874,"authorDomain":"DiffTech"}
I agree with you Bilokonsky. In my eyes this will only give us more benefits than problem, sure we are going to have a lot of new people but these things happen, thats the point of any community to keep growing. Plus we are going to get more expossure and thats something that we are needing.
On the money subject... I only have 3.74 on my account :)
{"commentId":1080874,"threadId":"159062","contentId":"1009069","authorDomain":"DiffTech"}
- 5 votes
#9 - Sun Oct 7, 2007 10:17 PM EDT{"commentId":1080885,"authorDomain":"eric-albert"}
Yuriy Bilokonsky
Eric Albert knows his @!$%#, best to act on that until further evidence comes up.
The corporate media has many ways to undermine democracy, both indirectly, and directly through censorship, which is harder to do. Most likely, it will be don on an indirect, lowest common denominator, that prevents intelligent voices from lifting consciousness and direction to the powerlessness. The middle ground is where the action is. Half of it is with the class elites, and oligarchy, the other half is reconstructing a social ideological framework for both subordinated layers, to find a way to transfom the corrupt servile middle layers, from its link to the oligarchy. There needs to be some mechanism, that can take on the elites, and at the same time help the lower exploited layers realize their potential, freedom from this class subordination. If the corporate media realizes that it cannot screen out the middle class liberals, to keep things interesting, then we the inheritors of the social middle class, the social liberals have a chance to dismantle the oligarchy as well as its servile middle class elites. That is where the ideological ground and struggle will be waged, leaders who help the lower classes find out the source of their powerlessness.
{"commentId":1080885,"threadId":"159062","contentId":"1009069","authorDomain":"eric-albert"}
- 6 votes
#10 - Sun Oct 7, 2007 10:21 PM EDT{"commentId":1080916,"authorDomain":"YuriyBilokonsky"}
Well Eric, I do share your worries. But I feel that a change in the system would be to their benefit as well. I am an enemy to none. I do not believe in collectivism, and while it is fun to go on about classes and the like, a much more important distinction should always be location. Who can I help, who can help me, how can we help each other? That is simple geography. I do not think that we should go to war, that is a zero-sum game. What we must do is work to make the world as we want it to be, and realize that there are some deeply pathogenic people in extraordinarily powerful positions who for whatever reason do not want the world to be a better place.
So yes, this worries me, but the optimist in me says that we might actually improve MSNBC. None of them are in on any conspiracy, they all just know how not to lose their jobs, and we are not in that danger. It is our duty to talk sense, and let logic flower in the brains of others.
{"commentId":1080916,"threadId":"159062","contentId":"1009069","authorDomain":"YuriyBilokonsky"}
- 7 votes
{"commentId":1080929,"authorDomain":"sbutki"}
I think you said it better with 8.3
{"commentId":1080929,"threadId":"159062","contentId":"1009069","authorDomain":"sbutki"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":1080932,"authorDomain":"deatienza"}
A larger community (ok, we're not sure how positive this is going to be. The newsvine community does not have a long history of "plays well with large new blocks of users." If we're honest with ourselves we'll admit that we may have a rocky transition ahead - so I'd like to urge everyone to be open-minded and welcoming. We've got the best user community on the internet, for my money - and I firmly believe that if we stick to our guns and do what we do best (that is, interact with respect and civility and genuine insight) then those values will prevail. What we don't need is anyone swaggering over and saying "Alright, noobs, listen up. Here's how we do things around here, and you'll do it or get out..." cuz that trick never works. Ok?
This is really the biggest issue for me.
With everything else people have brought up (corporate control of our content, blah, blah, blah) my view is that the staff has really earned a lot of trust from us and I do trust them to not cave and voluntarily destroy the soul of Newsvine for a bigger paycheck.
A huge influx of users, however, is the thing that's hardest for them to control. This site has generally had an extraordinarily high level of discourse. Even the flames on this site have to be couched in at the very least faux-intellectualism. The sort of growth that this new exposure will no doubt bring makes me worry the the signal-noise ratio in not only the comments but also the seeds and articles will decrease.
Honestly, the community is really the only reason I stick around these days and if it gets harder and harder to pull something good from everything that's offered I probably won't stick around for very long (though few would probably notice.)
{"commentId":1080932,"threadId":"159062","contentId":"1009069","authorDomain":"deatienza"}
- 11 votes
#11 - Sun Oct 7, 2007 10:41 PM EDT{"commentId":1080941,"authorDomain":"sbutki"}
I think it's going to come down to how the stories are fed to MSNBC. If, say, MSNBC features Rob's story on being in the military and that draws people into a good discussion of the war that's great.
If it features a seed that is flame bait and it draws in hundreds of new people into some hate filled generalizations about politics then it could get ugly.
I'd be curious in learning if the stuff being fed in the future to MSNBC would be seeds AND articles, just articles or what.
{"commentId":1080941,"threadId":"159062","contentId":"1009069","authorDomain":"sbutki"}
- 10 votes
{"commentId":1080976,"authorDomain":"darkside"}
{"commentId":1081158,"authorDomain":"DiffTech"}
Scott I think MSNBC will be fed the articles we write because they bought this place for the creative, orginal content that it produces. One thing that I still don't undertsand is that they say the they are going to integrate the content over the next few year... So how much do time do you think he means for few years?
{"commentId":1081158,"threadId":"159062","contentId":"1009069","authorDomain":"DiffTech"}
- 5 votes
{"commentId":1081964,"authorDomain":"sbutki"}
I can see how they can feature our articles into their web pages on various topics.
but I don't see how they would benefit from seeds since i'm sure they have their own people presumably combing the wires to find other good weird stories.
{"commentId":1081964,"threadId":"159062","contentId":"1009069","authorDomain":"sbutki"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":1083651,"authorDomain":"deatienza"}
I'd notice, Eric! I get 10% of your earnings!
I hope you didn't spend that $6 dollars you've gotten from me thus far all in one place.
{"commentId":1083651,"threadId":"159062","contentId":"1009069","authorDomain":"deatienza"}
{"commentId":1080986,"authorDomain":"eric-albert"}
Yuriy Bilokonsky
Well Eric, I do share your worries. But I feel that a change in the system would be to their benefit as well. I am an enemy to none. I do not believe in collectivism
Yuriy:
Every ideology believes in "collectivism", even Libertarians. The argument for a symmetrical market, social principle is the moral equivalent to the social principle, that all ideologies claim. The only question is whether they are claimed falsey or whether they are embraced through science and principle.
{"commentId":1080986,"threadId":"159062","contentId":"1009069","authorDomain":"eric-albert"}
- 3 votes
#12 - Sun Oct 7, 2007 11:03 PM EDT{"commentId":1081674,"authorDomain":"YuriyBilokonsky"}
I mean I don't believe in enforcing it. Every wall should be held up under its own strength.
{"commentId":1081674,"threadId":"159062","contentId":"1009069","authorDomain":"YuriyBilokonsky"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":1083395,"authorDomain":"raatkiraani"}
Every wall should be held up under its own strength.
Love that Yuriy. Has a certain ring to it and is so true. Consider it stolen with pride:-)
{"commentId":1083395,"threadId":"159062","contentId":"1009069","authorDomain":"raatkiraani"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":1081288,"authorDomain":"silkmesh"}
{"commentId":1081580,"authorDomain":"DrBlockbuster"}
Dr Blockbuster has done Global Admin on forums elsewhere (that allow colour and emoticons to enhance cushtomer schatishfaction :wink:)... so you never know.
The money was never good here unless you did 50,000 posts a day like ... well ... looking at the Leaderboard .... killfile, epiphany sorbet and schnoo ... the top 3 (currently) :roflmao:
Dr B can distribute his annual 10,000 posts output elsewhere.
Not that I'm complaining ... well .. not yet.
©Dr Blockbuster at newsvine, myspace, youtube, blockbusterbooks.co.uk, commanderbond, daltonswendy, scotsman, the herald, authorsden, amazon, amazon associates, bookandreader, answerbank, oddcast, mi6, plaxo, WHATtheTECH, MensTennisForums, Veuve Clicquot, Worldof warcraft, Landrover, vox
to name a few
:roflmAo: :roflmAo: :roflmAo:
So, if in the future, the shoe doesn't fit .............. :wink:
{"commentId":1081580,"threadId":"159062","contentId":"1009069","authorDomain":"DrBlockbuster"}
- 1 vote
#14 - Mon Oct 8, 2007 5:57 AM EDT{"commentId":1081783,"authorDomain":"raatkiraani"}
cool
{"commentId":1081783,"threadId":"159062","contentId":"1009069","authorDomain":"raatkiraani"}
- 1 vote
#15 - Mon Oct 8, 2007 8:32 AM EDT{"commentId":1081958,"authorDomain":"onlineapps"}
The only negative difference IMHO will be the possibility (NOTE not certainty) of censorship. The earnings IMHO will increase, and while we'll get more crackpot Digg-like fanboys over here, we'll still have a core community.
{"commentId":1081958,"threadId":"159062","contentId":"1009069","authorDomain":"onlineapps"}
- 1 vote
#16 - Mon Oct 8, 2007 9:52 AM EDT{"commentId":1081968,"authorDomain":"onlineapps"}
Oh, and if censorship ever did become a problem, I know a few web developers who could fork if necessary (hopefully not though):
http://webdevel.newsvine.com/
http://webdevelopers.newsvine.com/
http://develop.newsvine.com/
http://extend.newsvine.com/
{"commentId":1081968,"threadId":"159062","contentId":"1009069","authorDomain":"onlineapps"}
- 2 votes
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